So much honesty and humility...I enjoyed this discussion so much! You two make quite a dynamic duo: I could listen for hours. I had never really considered how much more complicated mother/daughter relationships are than mother/son ones are. But of course: I hadn’t thought about the mirroring aspect of it before.
Some other thoughts that came to mind as I listened:
- [ ] Moms really DO set the tone for the home. (Not solely, but so much!) I wish I had been more conscious of this when I was raising my little family. Come to think of it, I wish I had been more conscious of EVERYTHING while child rearing. All I got was a “What To Expect When You’re Expecting” book! We need more Gabor Mates, Gordon Neufields, Peter Grays, and others.
- [ ] Children blindly trust adults—much like adults blindly trust “experts”. We all need to learn to exercise better discernment in this department. Awareness of our propensity for this behavior is the key to changing it.
- [ ] Another useful tool I used myself to help to process my own disillusionment with our political leaders, my disintegrated trust in medicine and education, and other major life upheavals is Elizabeth Kübler-Ross’s “5 Stages of Grief”. It’s simplistic, but it helped me orientate where I was in the grief cycle, allowing me to predict what might come next, and it helped me manage my expectations generally.
- [ ] While I don’t disagree that the previous subcultures were probably organic and youth-led (but were they really, though?), in the early 70s, university professors were feeding undergrad students LSD. Timothy Leary was VERY influential…and there was plenty of CIA/military involvement, too. (Hello? Did I scare you away? Come back!)
- [ ] If anyone is interested in the history of public schools, I would highly recommend “NEA: Trojan Horse in American Education” by Sam Blumenfeld. It’s the best book on the subject I’ve ever read.
"I could listen for hours." If you listened to the whole thing, you did listen for hours! ;) I think there is so much grief in this work being demanded of mothers. This experience has rocked the foundations of so many and forced us to examine our values and, as Jennifer said, "step up and be our own heroes." This is a process known as "anomie" when the systems you trusted fail you and leave you unsure how to move through life, forcing you to rebuild your foundations. It's not easy stuff. So much of parenting is hindsight--maybe that's why grandmas are so important! ;)
I should have said “more hours”...yes, I’m a glutton! 😉
“Anomie” is a great word. I was a Sociology major and I hadn’t heard this term in ages. It exactly explains what’s happening--and how to use it positively (like with “positive disintegration”).
I hope all this hindsight will be put to good use and maybe lead to an awareness of a wider range of parenting/communication techniques and philosophies to help guide new parents.
The Baumrind Parenting styles (authoritative, permissive, uninvolved, and authoritarian) is too narrow and isn’t particularly practical. As much as I’d like to think that I parented intentionally, I really just “winged it” (I can’t be alone!): I looked at what my mother did and made adjustments, but that’s not a very good way to do it. It leads us to parenting the way we wish/think WE’D have liked to have been parented, but that really just perpetuates potentially unhealthy cycles and is ultimately self-indulgent (I say with the benefit of hindsight).
There’s always the risk of endless fads, like with nutrition quasi-science or relationship pop-psychology nonsense. As you said before: grandparents are probably our best resource. But when we all wait until we’re well into our 30s (or 40s!) to have our babies (like in my family), we’re racing against the clock!
Anyway: if anyone has an “archiving spirit” or looking for a thesis subject, the wisdom contained in these interviews, articles, and comment sections are pure gold.
I wanted to say that could have been me. Fortunately my dad was a paediatrician and I realized what was going on and got on the list to get help right away and read everything I could get my hands on. By the time she was seen she had lost so much weight she was hospitalized, attached to bed with monitors because she had exhausted fat reserves and was digesting muscle. However she made a complete recovery. The point is with both conditions parents need to hit it with everything they've got as soon as they see signs because the more entrenched it becomes the worse the prognosis. This does not seem to be well understodd.
Brilliant!
I'm so glad the conversation resonated for you! Thanks for taking the time to comment.
So much honesty and humility...I enjoyed this discussion so much! You two make quite a dynamic duo: I could listen for hours. I had never really considered how much more complicated mother/daughter relationships are than mother/son ones are. But of course: I hadn’t thought about the mirroring aspect of it before.
Some other thoughts that came to mind as I listened:
- [ ] Moms really DO set the tone for the home. (Not solely, but so much!) I wish I had been more conscious of this when I was raising my little family. Come to think of it, I wish I had been more conscious of EVERYTHING while child rearing. All I got was a “What To Expect When You’re Expecting” book! We need more Gabor Mates, Gordon Neufields, Peter Grays, and others.
- [ ] Children blindly trust adults—much like adults blindly trust “experts”. We all need to learn to exercise better discernment in this department. Awareness of our propensity for this behavior is the key to changing it.
- [ ] Another useful tool I used myself to help to process my own disillusionment with our political leaders, my disintegrated trust in medicine and education, and other major life upheavals is Elizabeth Kübler-Ross’s “5 Stages of Grief”. It’s simplistic, but it helped me orientate where I was in the grief cycle, allowing me to predict what might come next, and it helped me manage my expectations generally.
- [ ] While I don’t disagree that the previous subcultures were probably organic and youth-led (but were they really, though?), in the early 70s, university professors were feeding undergrad students LSD. Timothy Leary was VERY influential…and there was plenty of CIA/military involvement, too. (Hello? Did I scare you away? Come back!)
- [ ] If anyone is interested in the history of public schools, I would highly recommend “NEA: Trojan Horse in American Education” by Sam Blumenfeld. It’s the best book on the subject I’ve ever read.
You have SUCH good content—thank you for it!
"I could listen for hours." If you listened to the whole thing, you did listen for hours! ;) I think there is so much grief in this work being demanded of mothers. This experience has rocked the foundations of so many and forced us to examine our values and, as Jennifer said, "step up and be our own heroes." This is a process known as "anomie" when the systems you trusted fail you and leave you unsure how to move through life, forcing you to rebuild your foundations. It's not easy stuff. So much of parenting is hindsight--maybe that's why grandmas are so important! ;)
I should have said “more hours”...yes, I’m a glutton! 😉
“Anomie” is a great word. I was a Sociology major and I hadn’t heard this term in ages. It exactly explains what’s happening--and how to use it positively (like with “positive disintegration”).
I hope all this hindsight will be put to good use and maybe lead to an awareness of a wider range of parenting/communication techniques and philosophies to help guide new parents.
The Baumrind Parenting styles (authoritative, permissive, uninvolved, and authoritarian) is too narrow and isn’t particularly practical. As much as I’d like to think that I parented intentionally, I really just “winged it” (I can’t be alone!): I looked at what my mother did and made adjustments, but that’s not a very good way to do it. It leads us to parenting the way we wish/think WE’D have liked to have been parented, but that really just perpetuates potentially unhealthy cycles and is ultimately self-indulgent (I say with the benefit of hindsight).
There’s always the risk of endless fads, like with nutrition quasi-science or relationship pop-psychology nonsense. As you said before: grandparents are probably our best resource. But when we all wait until we’re well into our 30s (or 40s!) to have our babies (like in my family), we’re racing against the clock!
Anyway: if anyone has an “archiving spirit” or looking for a thesis subject, the wisdom contained in these interviews, articles, and comment sections are pure gold.
Anorexia Is more apt to be fatal the longer it persists too.
I know a family who lost their daughter to anorexia. It was an endless, grueling battle for everyone. Awful. 💔
I wanted to say that could have been me. Fortunately my dad was a paediatrician and I realized what was going on and got on the list to get help right away and read everything I could get my hands on. By the time she was seen she had lost so much weight she was hospitalized, attached to bed with monitors because she had exhausted fat reserves and was digesting muscle. However she made a complete recovery. The point is with both conditions parents need to hit it with everything they've got as soon as they see signs because the more entrenched it becomes the worse the prognosis. This does not seem to be well understodd.
Same consent process in Canada: https://www.siskinds.com/consent-of-minors-to-medical-treatment/