Great experiment. I think this is at least partly true. That is, because society has gone mad on this issue (and many more), it is not "crazy" for a kid, teen or young adult to adopt the lies being spread through every major institution of society, and through their peer group. In that sense, we can look at this as a choice our kids have made, with which we vehemently disagree, but which is not completely out of left field from their point of view.
On the other hand, this is not "normal" because it is, as you have said before, a symptom of a sick society - although we as "puny humans" could hardly be expected to control this sick society.
Also, for the most part, only vulnerable young people (vulnerable for many reasons) will adopt this particular set of beliefs, so we do have to consider that we have vulnerable kids. The guilt can be that we somehow couldn't prevent our kids from such vulnerability. To the extent that some kids do this and are not vulnerable, but just find it somehow helpful, that could be an exception. However, while I think some "non-vulnerable" young people might adopt this bizarre set of beliefs and use it for some neutral or even positive purposes, I would be hard-pressed to believe that any "non-vulnerable" young person would go so far as to medicalize. If a young person gets to that point (as mine has), I think the vulnerability is undeniable. So, while adoption of the illogical, harmful belief system and follow through with the harmful medical interventions may be "normal" for vulnerable young people, I still have to deal with the guilt of not preventing my child from being vulnerable.
The question then becomes: could I have prevented the vulnerabilities? Did I do something or not do something that could have strengthened my daughter's character and prevented her from adopting the harmful belief system and seeking out the harmful medical interventions that belief system endorses?
New thought experiment: What if some people are inherently vulnerable, and your child is one of them? What if your child then adopted a belief system that, wholly outside of your control, was fully endorsed by society and her peers? Since you had no control over the vulnerability or the spreading of the belief system, can you accept that there was nothing you could have done about this? And does that give you any comfort?
I've been thinking that "normal" may have been the wrong word. "Common" might have been a better choice.
This comment is such a great illustration of the different stories we can hold about what’s happening with our kids and how our narratives will impact our experience. You and I approach this with radically different lenses and orientations. I think I can kind of tap into the feeling experience your story evokes because I used to share it. It feels really distant to me now though and I have to admit, I’m really grateful for that.
I think for all of recorded human history, society could be considered “sick” in some way. I’ve come to believe this is part of the human story and necessary even for the universal calling that will eventually find its way to each of us. If we recognize an invitation (embedded in the dark night of the soul) to individuate from the sickness by tuning inward and operating from our heart-centers, we transform our experience in amazing ways.
I think all humans are puny AND incredibly wondrous.
I agree Hippiesq. Some kids are more vulnerable to this identity, more vulnerable to medicalization of the identity.
Liberal girls come to mind, others are vulnerable to mental health/identity melt-downs, lesbians are at risk, as well as tendency towards SJW--due to their peer groups and personalities.
Can I think of things I wish I had done differently? Yes, I can. Do I ruminate over this? No.
She's an adult. She has now been in this identity for several years. I still hope she will detransition one day. It's unlikely. I don't feel guilty for holding this hope. I tell her the door is always open to a relationship with her mother, no matter her identity.
If I might? I think all humans are vulnerable to their stories. We're meaning-makers and we'll attach narratives to our emotional experiences and those narratives will influence us in powerful ways.
I hear that you are offering your daughter what we refer to here as "the generous invitation" and that you're able to do that because you can discern between her "stuff" and yours.
Hope is important to a healthy experience of life. It's unfortunate that a sense hope might also induce a sense of guilt. I'm glad that's not happening for you.
Thank you. This definitely gives a fresh perspective on our parenting experience. As a parent of desisted teens, I think it may be easier for me to engage in this thought experiment. I imagine for those who have kids that have medically transitioned and/or gone no-contact it's much, much harder. Would that pain supercede every attempt to engage in the experiment? It hopefully could alleviate some of the mother-guilt we all carry, no matter what your kids are going through. I can see how this translates to other things our kids might experience today...Social Media, fentanyl/drugs, and other signs of these times. Food for thought. 🙏
I suppose I'm not going for ease and still believe the thought experiment to be useful no matter the state of the identity or family unity. The goal of the experiment--as with most of the content here--is to explore our relationship with the pain you mention. Can we find a way to be with it that supports us to more grace for ourselves and our humanity? Does this thought experiment support that? If not, what does it bring to light?
My initial thought was that if my kids were physically transitioning—taking cross-sex hormones and getting surgical procedures—I would be so consumed with worry regarding the negative health implications and the likelihood that their lives would be shortened, I'm not sure engaging in this thought experiment would help.
There could be some relief in knowing that this is a normal human experience, but I don't know if that would be enough to reframe the guilt I would feel. Maybe a little bit? Even a little bit is better than not at all 🙏
Mother-Guilt is so omnipresent no matter what we're facing today. Social Media addiction and fentanyl use came to mind as other ubiquitous "normal" human experiences for our teens. How does a parent navigate any of these things that we have almost no prior experience with?
As someone who was (and still is) Attachment Parenting, the only way I was able to reduce my cortisol response while my kids were ID'ing as trans was to detach. It felt awful and wrong on so many levels 😞 (and I assume this is what parents of addicts or criminals must do to a certain extent). I wish I'd had other options to consider. I appreciate you sharing your expertise to help us Moms navigate through this. There are certainly better options than detachment. I am still rebuilding what was lost during those years.
These are just some rambling thoughts in my head...I know there are no easy answers.
Thanks for taking the time to come back and expand your thoughts. I agree that there are no easy answers.
I think there are different types of detachment. There's the shutting down and defended type that is cold and uninviting--that pushes our children away because we can't handle the messy emotions and experiences. But there's also detaching from feeling responsible for our children's outcomes because we're able to discern what is ours and what is theirs. (The recognition that we are just puny humans who can't solve life for others.) If we can do this, we free them from feeling responsible for our wellbeing. And this makes us actually more able to be with them in whatever messy experience they're having. They can sense that we're big enough to accompany them in their pain and I believe this is what they need most from us.
Again thank you for engaging with me on this--it helps me to clarify for others as well.
This is actually a very helpful distinction, thank you🙏
I'm also realizing there's more Worry than Guilt for me at least. New things have come up in the last 24 hours that have re-ignited The Worry. I'll keep the distinction you made in mind as I navigate through this again.
“I could then let go of what I thought I needed from her, to focus on what she really needed from me. To recognize my vision had been distorted by how I’d judged this identity and the resulting projections that were reflecting back my own painful baggage, allowed me to begin to see her in all her wondrous humanness. Just doing her best, like all of us are.”
Our kids pick up the underlying message that we may not have faith in them.
What if what they needed is that we have the utmost faith in them?
I only wish I could pretend this wasn't real but young adults and children are carving up their bodies and being sterilized, children are being ripped form the arms of loving parents . That is reality is we are all entrusted with protecting , teaching , nurturing precious and valuable , beautiful unique humans. They are wounded , harmed , victimized , by an evil society that has made them prey for money and power. So many were silent as this insanity invaded every our aspect of our culture ,our nations and then our homes. Many of our children were locked in their rooms for years with screens to filter every evil into our homes. Evil slipped in the back door and stole our children and yes I failed to protect my beautiful girl , from the wounds , from the predators , from the world this puny mom will grab the hand of her very big powerful God and fight back for my daughter & all the other children . I don't have time to be self focused we are literally fighting for a generation . I say NOOO this is insanity ,no this is not normal ,its pure evil and can only be overcome by all of us taking responsibility to fight . in our homes , schools , churches , voting booths , online and in person .
Hi Lara. Thank you for dropping by and sharing your thoughts. I can hear the pain that this reality has delivered to you and your family and I know it's shared by so many who have experienced the devastation you describe.
The SMP approaches this through a very different paradigm and is likely not the place to recruit warriors to fight in the battle of good and evil. I wish you all the best and hope you come to find peace.
Great experiment. I think this is at least partly true. That is, because society has gone mad on this issue (and many more), it is not "crazy" for a kid, teen or young adult to adopt the lies being spread through every major institution of society, and through their peer group. In that sense, we can look at this as a choice our kids have made, with which we vehemently disagree, but which is not completely out of left field from their point of view.
On the other hand, this is not "normal" because it is, as you have said before, a symptom of a sick society - although we as "puny humans" could hardly be expected to control this sick society.
Also, for the most part, only vulnerable young people (vulnerable for many reasons) will adopt this particular set of beliefs, so we do have to consider that we have vulnerable kids. The guilt can be that we somehow couldn't prevent our kids from such vulnerability. To the extent that some kids do this and are not vulnerable, but just find it somehow helpful, that could be an exception. However, while I think some "non-vulnerable" young people might adopt this bizarre set of beliefs and use it for some neutral or even positive purposes, I would be hard-pressed to believe that any "non-vulnerable" young person would go so far as to medicalize. If a young person gets to that point (as mine has), I think the vulnerability is undeniable. So, while adoption of the illogical, harmful belief system and follow through with the harmful medical interventions may be "normal" for vulnerable young people, I still have to deal with the guilt of not preventing my child from being vulnerable.
The question then becomes: could I have prevented the vulnerabilities? Did I do something or not do something that could have strengthened my daughter's character and prevented her from adopting the harmful belief system and seeking out the harmful medical interventions that belief system endorses?
New thought experiment: What if some people are inherently vulnerable, and your child is one of them? What if your child then adopted a belief system that, wholly outside of your control, was fully endorsed by society and her peers? Since you had no control over the vulnerability or the spreading of the belief system, can you accept that there was nothing you could have done about this? And does that give you any comfort?
I've been thinking that "normal" may have been the wrong word. "Common" might have been a better choice.
This comment is such a great illustration of the different stories we can hold about what’s happening with our kids and how our narratives will impact our experience. You and I approach this with radically different lenses and orientations. I think I can kind of tap into the feeling experience your story evokes because I used to share it. It feels really distant to me now though and I have to admit, I’m really grateful for that.
I think for all of recorded human history, society could be considered “sick” in some way. I’ve come to believe this is part of the human story and necessary even for the universal calling that will eventually find its way to each of us. If we recognize an invitation (embedded in the dark night of the soul) to individuate from the sickness by tuning inward and operating from our heart-centers, we transform our experience in amazing ways.
I think all humans are puny AND incredibly wondrous.
Maybe try both thought experiments and see which one works best to give you faith in your capacity to navigate this wild human experience.
I do want to respond to this comment more thoroughly but don't have time right now. I'll be back!
I agree Hippiesq. Some kids are more vulnerable to this identity, more vulnerable to medicalization of the identity.
Liberal girls come to mind, others are vulnerable to mental health/identity melt-downs, lesbians are at risk, as well as tendency towards SJW--due to their peer groups and personalities.
Can I think of things I wish I had done differently? Yes, I can. Do I ruminate over this? No.
She's an adult. She has now been in this identity for several years. I still hope she will detransition one day. It's unlikely. I don't feel guilty for holding this hope. I tell her the door is always open to a relationship with her mother, no matter her identity.
If I might? I think all humans are vulnerable to their stories. We're meaning-makers and we'll attach narratives to our emotional experiences and those narratives will influence us in powerful ways.
I hear that you are offering your daughter what we refer to here as "the generous invitation" and that you're able to do that because you can discern between her "stuff" and yours.
Hope is important to a healthy experience of life. It's unfortunate that a sense hope might also induce a sense of guilt. I'm glad that's not happening for you.
Thank you. This definitely gives a fresh perspective on our parenting experience. As a parent of desisted teens, I think it may be easier for me to engage in this thought experiment. I imagine for those who have kids that have medically transitioned and/or gone no-contact it's much, much harder. Would that pain supercede every attempt to engage in the experiment? It hopefully could alleviate some of the mother-guilt we all carry, no matter what your kids are going through. I can see how this translates to other things our kids might experience today...Social Media, fentanyl/drugs, and other signs of these times. Food for thought. 🙏
appreciate the comment but could you say more?
I suppose I'm not going for ease and still believe the thought experiment to be useful no matter the state of the identity or family unity. The goal of the experiment--as with most of the content here--is to explore our relationship with the pain you mention. Can we find a way to be with it that supports us to more grace for ourselves and our humanity? Does this thought experiment support that? If not, what does it bring to light?
My initial thought was that if my kids were physically transitioning—taking cross-sex hormones and getting surgical procedures—I would be so consumed with worry regarding the negative health implications and the likelihood that their lives would be shortened, I'm not sure engaging in this thought experiment would help.
There could be some relief in knowing that this is a normal human experience, but I don't know if that would be enough to reframe the guilt I would feel. Maybe a little bit? Even a little bit is better than not at all 🙏
Mother-Guilt is so omnipresent no matter what we're facing today. Social Media addiction and fentanyl use came to mind as other ubiquitous "normal" human experiences for our teens. How does a parent navigate any of these things that we have almost no prior experience with?
As someone who was (and still is) Attachment Parenting, the only way I was able to reduce my cortisol response while my kids were ID'ing as trans was to detach. It felt awful and wrong on so many levels 😞 (and I assume this is what parents of addicts or criminals must do to a certain extent). I wish I'd had other options to consider. I appreciate you sharing your expertise to help us Moms navigate through this. There are certainly better options than detachment. I am still rebuilding what was lost during those years.
These are just some rambling thoughts in my head...I know there are no easy answers.
Thanks for taking the time to come back and expand your thoughts. I agree that there are no easy answers.
I think there are different types of detachment. There's the shutting down and defended type that is cold and uninviting--that pushes our children away because we can't handle the messy emotions and experiences. But there's also detaching from feeling responsible for our children's outcomes because we're able to discern what is ours and what is theirs. (The recognition that we are just puny humans who can't solve life for others.) If we can do this, we free them from feeling responsible for our wellbeing. And this makes us actually more able to be with them in whatever messy experience they're having. They can sense that we're big enough to accompany them in their pain and I believe this is what they need most from us.
Again thank you for engaging with me on this--it helps me to clarify for others as well.
This is actually a very helpful distinction, thank you🙏
I'm also realizing there's more Worry than Guilt for me at least. New things have come up in the last 24 hours that have re-ignited The Worry. I'll keep the distinction you made in mind as I navigate through this again.
Maybe you can turn up the faith? ;)
“I could then let go of what I thought I needed from her, to focus on what she really needed from me. To recognize my vision had been distorted by how I’d judged this identity and the resulting projections that were reflecting back my own painful baggage, allowed me to begin to see her in all her wondrous humanness. Just doing her best, like all of us are.”
Our kids pick up the underlying message that we may not have faith in them.
What if what they needed is that we have the utmost faith in them?
Beautiful, introspective piece.
Ty! I feel like you get me. 😘
I only wish I could pretend this wasn't real but young adults and children are carving up their bodies and being sterilized, children are being ripped form the arms of loving parents . That is reality is we are all entrusted with protecting , teaching , nurturing precious and valuable , beautiful unique humans. They are wounded , harmed , victimized , by an evil society that has made them prey for money and power. So many were silent as this insanity invaded every our aspect of our culture ,our nations and then our homes. Many of our children were locked in their rooms for years with screens to filter every evil into our homes. Evil slipped in the back door and stole our children and yes I failed to protect my beautiful girl , from the wounds , from the predators , from the world this puny mom will grab the hand of her very big powerful God and fight back for my daughter & all the other children . I don't have time to be self focused we are literally fighting for a generation . I say NOOO this is insanity ,no this is not normal ,its pure evil and can only be overcome by all of us taking responsibility to fight . in our homes , schools , churches , voting booths , online and in person .
Hi Lara. Thank you for dropping by and sharing your thoughts. I can hear the pain that this reality has delivered to you and your family and I know it's shared by so many who have experienced the devastation you describe.
The SMP approaches this through a very different paradigm and is likely not the place to recruit warriors to fight in the battle of good and evil. I wish you all the best and hope you come to find peace.