Oh, my! This helped me so much. I am not quite as far along as you are, but I do see light ar the end of the tunnel. Just an outstanding podcast. Thank you and God bless you both!
To be perfectly honest, I find this very difficult. Maybe I’m just not ready for it. I don’t know. But I’ve always hated the Abraham story because, for me, it represented blind faith - and I don’t like blind faith. Faith for me is faith only in my own instincts - which could be said to be a tapping into the universe and it’s overall wisdom. But faith in something that goes against my own instincts seems contrary and potentially destructive. In fact, that’s the type of faith that is causing so many to wander into gender ideology. That’s one part of this. The other part is that I can’t just leave it to my daughter, and trust that she will figure it all out because I do believe she has been the victim of cultural forces beyond her control that are blinding her to her own instincts - which I do trust. So I feel like I have to intervene to get her to see through the blinding light of this destructive ideology and tap back into her instincts. On the other hand, I totally agree that there may be some things here beyond our control and we have to let those go. It’s that serenity prayer thing. We have to change what we can (if we think it’s wrong), accept what we can’t change, and figure out the difference. Maybe I’m still figuring out the difference and you’ve already determined what you can and cannot change. This was not meant to criticize! Just to keep the discussion going.
Thank you!! Yes! These are the conversations I meant to start. I appreciate this! Here goes my attempt to clarify:
First off, I welcome criticism! I consider it feedback that gives me an opportunity to try to clarify anything that wasn’t communicated clearly. Sometimes it even inspires whole essays! Which this response might be…
“Maybe I’m just not ready for it.” I think this is the case for many. I’ve known a long time this was “the way” for me yet I wasn’t truly ready for it until my daughter’s 18th. In the meantime though I was working toward it. (Though I think it's possible and probably a good idea to use this way with younger teens; they still need boundaries, a solid container to bounce around in and explore but once they're 18, to keep controlling their outcome you must manipulate them with your affection or money. Personally, I don't think this is ever a good idea, but again, that's me. It's worked for many moms to get their kid to desist. Now we're back to what is your goal? Mine is to empower my kid to take responsibility for her experience and to not be a force she needs to push against.)
“I don’t like blind faith…faith (is) in my own instincts.” Me too!! This isn’t about faith in something that goes against your instincts, and maybe we need to clarify what you mean about “something”? I certainly don’t have faith in the ideology or even the culture. I don’t have faith in the so-called experts. From my piece What’s Working:
"The faith I have is in myself as a resilient human being, faith in my child and her human capacity (that she’s not ready to acknowledge but I know is there,) and faith in our attachment and the foundations of her early childhood. I have faith that as she matures, she’ll take on more and more responsibility for the quality of her experience. I see it already. But then again, I’m looking for it." Maybe also check out my response to snevetsc in this comment section.
This really is all about the gist of the Serenity Prayer and letting go of what you cannot control, namely, your kid. (you can attempt to control and many moms will in this situation; I don't recommend it--but that's me; I believe coercion is unhealthy.) I would also direct you to Julia’s comments on “How will you know?” and also you might want to (re)read my piece, “Communicating with your archetypal ftm.”
As Jessie says it’s difficult to convey in a podcast, the shift I’m trying to encourage. Also as she says, it’s not that I don’t care if my child transitions. I care very much and my daughter knows that. It’s integral to this approach. I say a similar thing elsewhere but it bears repeating it here; what I’ve communicated to my daughter is this:
"You know I think this is a terrible idea and you know why. We both know I can't control you (and I don’t want or need to because) I trust you to think through your actions and make the healthiest decisions for yourself.”
By doing this I take away her need to push me away, to cut me out (to cut off her own doubts). I’ve separated my work from hers. I’ve freed her to grow up. I’ve individuated so she can.
Does it mean she won’t medicalize? Not necessarily. I sure hope so, but in the end, it’s now her work. And I’ve communicated that I’m here for her, I won’t reject her either, and I believe in her. I'm not just leaving it all up to her--I will help her all I can and she knows I'm invested in her healthiest outcomes.
Hoping this helps! But it’s definitely ALL easier said than done. I understood this a long time ago. It literally took me years. It’s also why I say this isn’t work for the faint of heart and why I offer coaching. ;)
This conversation was so helpful. Our daughter is 15 and for the past two years the schools (against our explicit wishes) treated her like a boy. She pretends to be a boy at school with her teachers and friends. We continue to treat her like a girl at home and with family friends, neighbors, and relatives. Some groups overlap, but I hold the line with her name and sex. She’s always been a natural rebel and VERY independent. The more I push back, the more intrenched she becomes. This year, I backed off. A LOT. I have found the less I micromanage her the better she does, despite being still trans-identified.
She's focusing on her schoolwork, hanging out with a nice group of kids, earning money doing odd jobs, making future plans, being more helpful at home. She seems legit happy. She doesn't seem bothered switching between he/him pronouns at school and using she/her pronouns with us/neighbors/family. I’m bothered more because, as the mother, I’m constantly asked what pronouns she goes by, so I am repeatedly forced to weigh her wishes against my conscience. I say she/her and change the subject.
I have a great kid. She’s kind and funny and smart and beautiful. I support her rejection of sex-based stereotypes. She can wear whatever she like. All I can do is to try and provide space where she can be comfortable becoming whatever type of woman she wants to be.
I really love the concept of Curriculum of the Soul. It’s time for me to let go of the illusion of control. I want to enjoy her again; being with her and watching her grow into a happy, connected, contributing adult. I want to stop being anxious and worried all the time for her and for the state of our world. I want to trust that she will, eventually, make the best decisions she can for herself. At this point, I need to focus on becoming a happy, less-anxious mother. I’m not there yet. Wish me luck.
"I have a great kid. She’s kind and funny and smart and beautiful. I support her rejection of sex-based stereotypes. She can wear whatever she like. All I can do is to try and provide space where she can be comfortable becoming whatever type of woman she wants to be. I really love the concept of Curriculum of the Soul."
Thank you so much for taking the time to share some of your story! It sounds like you've put a safe container around your daughter and you provide a tether to reality at home and in other contexts, and now you're trusting her to do the work of adolescence. Seems simple, but I know it's not easy! I would say by choosing to not "micromanage" her, you're communicating faith in her ability to figure this out, you've set your boundaries, and your kid knows your values. You've done what's within your control to do, and I do wish you lots of luck with focusing "on becoming a happy, less-anxious mother"!
Your story is so similar to mine. Even your philosophy towards learning. The charter sounds like the one I did home study with. SCVI . I pulled my son out of public school and started in 2nd grade. My daughter never went to school. Unfortunately the gender and sexual orientation crap started in a home school theatre program at a community theatre. She has chosen to go to public school last year in 9th grade. Wow! They sure do look for a diagnoses for normal teen feelings. She wanted to be diagnosed with anxiety. That's exactly what a therapist did last year. I stopped therapy. Have taken her to lots of concerts and some how the anxiety has disappeared. I completely unschooled her final year of home schooling. Now the teachers indulge her name and gender at school. I don't at home.
Yes, you probably know how determined my kid was to get an adhd dx. And honestly, I get it. She was doing her best to adapt to that world. I try to maintain that compassion for her experience right now even though she's very clear I don't and will never believe she's a boy. We do what it takes to get by.
I have been waiting for this episode. I have been so curious how things are going for you! So many of us moms are having parallel experiences, and I love how you are handling it. I continue to model, I continue to show up and engage even more. There is a shift now. Maybe it’s her maturing and being able to take more control of other things in her life. Maybe it’s me reminding myself that this is the culture, to continue to find joy and be present with her as this time is so precious. It’s also me becoming more confident and setting boundaries. Thank you StoicMom.
It took me a bit to warm up to this book: The Parent/Teen Breakthrough, but now I don't think I can recommend it highly enough. As I "return to the higher path" it affirms that this is the path for me. I don't know that it's the path for everyone--depends on your goal as I said in "How will you know?"
But I read this last night after the conversation with Jessie:
"The best gift you can give your teenager is confidence that she is a strong, healthy, normal kid who's doing just what she should be doing. So the next time your kid tells you about a new direction she's taking, just say, "I'm sure you'll be someone you [note the "you" instead of "I'll"] like and feel proud of."
Oh, my! This helped me so much. I am not quite as far along as you are, but I do see light ar the end of the tunnel. Just an outstanding podcast. Thank you and God bless you both!
😍 The journey to the light is worth it. It's what strengthens you and makes reaching the light so so good. Thank you for sharing this comment!
To be perfectly honest, I find this very difficult. Maybe I’m just not ready for it. I don’t know. But I’ve always hated the Abraham story because, for me, it represented blind faith - and I don’t like blind faith. Faith for me is faith only in my own instincts - which could be said to be a tapping into the universe and it’s overall wisdom. But faith in something that goes against my own instincts seems contrary and potentially destructive. In fact, that’s the type of faith that is causing so many to wander into gender ideology. That’s one part of this. The other part is that I can’t just leave it to my daughter, and trust that she will figure it all out because I do believe she has been the victim of cultural forces beyond her control that are blinding her to her own instincts - which I do trust. So I feel like I have to intervene to get her to see through the blinding light of this destructive ideology and tap back into her instincts. On the other hand, I totally agree that there may be some things here beyond our control and we have to let those go. It’s that serenity prayer thing. We have to change what we can (if we think it’s wrong), accept what we can’t change, and figure out the difference. Maybe I’m still figuring out the difference and you’ve already determined what you can and cannot change. This was not meant to criticize! Just to keep the discussion going.
Thank you!! Yes! These are the conversations I meant to start. I appreciate this! Here goes my attempt to clarify:
First off, I welcome criticism! I consider it feedback that gives me an opportunity to try to clarify anything that wasn’t communicated clearly. Sometimes it even inspires whole essays! Which this response might be…
“Maybe I’m just not ready for it.” I think this is the case for many. I’ve known a long time this was “the way” for me yet I wasn’t truly ready for it until my daughter’s 18th. In the meantime though I was working toward it. (Though I think it's possible and probably a good idea to use this way with younger teens; they still need boundaries, a solid container to bounce around in and explore but once they're 18, to keep controlling their outcome you must manipulate them with your affection or money. Personally, I don't think this is ever a good idea, but again, that's me. It's worked for many moms to get their kid to desist. Now we're back to what is your goal? Mine is to empower my kid to take responsibility for her experience and to not be a force she needs to push against.)
“I don’t like blind faith…faith (is) in my own instincts.” Me too!! This isn’t about faith in something that goes against your instincts, and maybe we need to clarify what you mean about “something”? I certainly don’t have faith in the ideology or even the culture. I don’t have faith in the so-called experts. From my piece What’s Working:
"The faith I have is in myself as a resilient human being, faith in my child and her human capacity (that she’s not ready to acknowledge but I know is there,) and faith in our attachment and the foundations of her early childhood. I have faith that as she matures, she’ll take on more and more responsibility for the quality of her experience. I see it already. But then again, I’m looking for it." Maybe also check out my response to snevetsc in this comment section.
This really is all about the gist of the Serenity Prayer and letting go of what you cannot control, namely, your kid. (you can attempt to control and many moms will in this situation; I don't recommend it--but that's me; I believe coercion is unhealthy.) I would also direct you to Julia’s comments on “How will you know?” and also you might want to (re)read my piece, “Communicating with your archetypal ftm.”
As Jessie says it’s difficult to convey in a podcast, the shift I’m trying to encourage. Also as she says, it’s not that I don’t care if my child transitions. I care very much and my daughter knows that. It’s integral to this approach. I say a similar thing elsewhere but it bears repeating it here; what I’ve communicated to my daughter is this:
"You know I think this is a terrible idea and you know why. We both know I can't control you (and I don’t want or need to because) I trust you to think through your actions and make the healthiest decisions for yourself.”
By doing this I take away her need to push me away, to cut me out (to cut off her own doubts). I’ve separated my work from hers. I’ve freed her to grow up. I’ve individuated so she can.
Does it mean she won’t medicalize? Not necessarily. I sure hope so, but in the end, it’s now her work. And I’ve communicated that I’m here for her, I won’t reject her either, and I believe in her. I'm not just leaving it all up to her--I will help her all I can and she knows I'm invested in her healthiest outcomes.
Hoping this helps! But it’s definitely ALL easier said than done. I understood this a long time ago. It literally took me years. It’s also why I say this isn’t work for the faint of heart and why I offer coaching. ;)
This conversation was so helpful. Our daughter is 15 and for the past two years the schools (against our explicit wishes) treated her like a boy. She pretends to be a boy at school with her teachers and friends. We continue to treat her like a girl at home and with family friends, neighbors, and relatives. Some groups overlap, but I hold the line with her name and sex. She’s always been a natural rebel and VERY independent. The more I push back, the more intrenched she becomes. This year, I backed off. A LOT. I have found the less I micromanage her the better she does, despite being still trans-identified.
She's focusing on her schoolwork, hanging out with a nice group of kids, earning money doing odd jobs, making future plans, being more helpful at home. She seems legit happy. She doesn't seem bothered switching between he/him pronouns at school and using she/her pronouns with us/neighbors/family. I’m bothered more because, as the mother, I’m constantly asked what pronouns she goes by, so I am repeatedly forced to weigh her wishes against my conscience. I say she/her and change the subject.
I have a great kid. She’s kind and funny and smart and beautiful. I support her rejection of sex-based stereotypes. She can wear whatever she like. All I can do is to try and provide space where she can be comfortable becoming whatever type of woman she wants to be.
I really love the concept of Curriculum of the Soul. It’s time for me to let go of the illusion of control. I want to enjoy her again; being with her and watching her grow into a happy, connected, contributing adult. I want to stop being anxious and worried all the time for her and for the state of our world. I want to trust that she will, eventually, make the best decisions she can for herself. At this point, I need to focus on becoming a happy, less-anxious mother. I’m not there yet. Wish me luck.
"I have a great kid. She’s kind and funny and smart and beautiful. I support her rejection of sex-based stereotypes. She can wear whatever she like. All I can do is to try and provide space where she can be comfortable becoming whatever type of woman she wants to be. I really love the concept of Curriculum of the Soul."
Thank you so much for taking the time to share some of your story! It sounds like you've put a safe container around your daughter and you provide a tether to reality at home and in other contexts, and now you're trusting her to do the work of adolescence. Seems simple, but I know it's not easy! I would say by choosing to not "micromanage" her, you're communicating faith in her ability to figure this out, you've set your boundaries, and your kid knows your values. You've done what's within your control to do, and I do wish you lots of luck with focusing "on becoming a happy, less-anxious mother"!
Your story is so similar to mine. Even your philosophy towards learning. The charter sounds like the one I did home study with. SCVI . I pulled my son out of public school and started in 2nd grade. My daughter never went to school. Unfortunately the gender and sexual orientation crap started in a home school theatre program at a community theatre. She has chosen to go to public school last year in 9th grade. Wow! They sure do look for a diagnoses for normal teen feelings. She wanted to be diagnosed with anxiety. That's exactly what a therapist did last year. I stopped therapy. Have taken her to lots of concerts and some how the anxiety has disappeared. I completely unschooled her final year of home schooling. Now the teachers indulge her name and gender at school. I don't at home.
Yes, you probably know how determined my kid was to get an adhd dx. And honestly, I get it. She was doing her best to adapt to that world. I try to maintain that compassion for her experience right now even though she's very clear I don't and will never believe she's a boy. We do what it takes to get by.
I have been waiting for this episode. I have been so curious how things are going for you! So many of us moms are having parallel experiences, and I love how you are handling it. I continue to model, I continue to show up and engage even more. There is a shift now. Maybe it’s her maturing and being able to take more control of other things in her life. Maybe it’s me reminding myself that this is the culture, to continue to find joy and be present with her as this time is so precious. It’s also me becoming more confident and setting boundaries. Thank you StoicMom.
Love this so much!
It took me a bit to warm up to this book: The Parent/Teen Breakthrough, but now I don't think I can recommend it highly enough. As I "return to the higher path" it affirms that this is the path for me. I don't know that it's the path for everyone--depends on your goal as I said in "How will you know?"
But I read this last night after the conversation with Jessie:
"The best gift you can give your teenager is confidence that she is a strong, healthy, normal kid who's doing just what she should be doing. So the next time your kid tells you about a new direction she's taking, just say, "I'm sure you'll be someone you [note the "you" instead of "I'll"] like and feel proud of."